With a busy autumn and winter of gigs coming up, in a number of collaborations, Nelly Brewer caught up with Jackie Oates to chat music and motherhood. Naturally they’re at a children’s birthday party, as life with small children makes free time scarce for both of them…
Let’s start at the start – tell me about where you grew up and your first experiences of folk music.
I was born in Congleton in Cheshire and my dad was a North West morris dancer, melodeon player and classical guitarist, and my mum was a North West clog dancer. Folk music was very present in our lives right from birth. We then moved to Stafford when I was 3, and I was often brought along to morris dancing events, festivals and sessions, as well as gigs at the Stafford Gatehouse. We went to Sidmouth Folk Festival and Bromyard Folk Festival (amongst others) every year, and this influenced me a huge amount.
You’ve dueted with quite an array of musicians over the years, when I first met you you were performing with your brother Doug, and also Ed Rennie, and then later James Dumbelton, Tristan Seume, Mike Cosgrave, Jack Rutter, to more recently Jon Wilks, Megan Henwood and John Spiers – what do you look for in a musical collaborator?
I find that a lot of my collaborations happen naturally and according to circumstance rather than a purposeful musical meeting. The folk scene is very social and I have always met dear friends, singers and musicians through going to sessions and festivals. The transition to playing together is usually quite an organic one. I think musically we are often aware when we find a resonance in playing together. It’s always exciting to explore the sound and feel of playing with different friends and each collaboration has a uniqueness to it. I have lived in a few different locations over the years, and so a lot of the people I play with in bands or duos live nearby, and therefore practicing and traveling to gigs is more simple.
More specifically, let’s talk about your collaboration with John Spiers, the beautiful Needle Pin album and your new festive release. How did that collaboration come about?
I have known John for many years through bumping into him at festivals and gigs and later in random locations when I first moved to Oxford (B&Q, a pizza restaurant etc!). We were both going through a quieter phase in our gigging a few years ago, and started being asked to play together at Nettlebed Folk Club. It was fun putting sets of songs and tunes together at short notice. After at least three years of having two or three numbers that we could play at short notice, we began working on a commision for the Museum of English Rural Life in Reading. As a result of this piece, more gigs came about and we realised how effortless it was meeting up, rehearsing and working on our duo.
There are so many gorgeous festive folky songs – how did you choose what went onto the new album, and what’s your favourite track?
We’ve been steadily building up a collection of festive songs – and these tend to be quite closely related to the area where we live – either through local Wassails or Boxing Day traditions that we attend. I’ve also loved exploring festive songs from Brittany and different parts of Scandinavia. I think my favourite track is Bergers Ecoutez La Musique – a bretagne carol that was introduced to me by Bristol Morris fool, Antony Gay!
You also teamed up with Nick Cope on the immensely popular kids TV show the Nick Cope Popcast, featuring as a singing witch and a fiddle playing octopus – tell me more about that!
I have been a big Nick Cope fan since my daughter was very little and we used to go to his weekly music sessions in Abingdon. His music helped us through many long car journeys. It was therefore the most exciting moment when one day I had a message from him on Twitter asking if I might like to sing on his next album. He hadn’t realised we’d been coming to the weekly sessions for two years! I was heavily heavily pregnant with my second child at the time and so I laid down the vocals the day before I went into labour! At that point Nick had been approached by cBeebies to make a show. A few months later we embarked on laying down vocal harmonies, fiddle and recorder parts for the new show. I brought along some of my pupils to sing backing vocals. It’s been a lot of fun.
For those of us who are ‘punters’, being a professional musician often seems exciting and even a little glamorous (spending your summer in a tent notwithstanding). Please disabuse us of that notion – what does a typical day look like for you?
Gigs tend to take place in the Autumn or Winter, on a weeknight or a Sunday. A typical day involves very complicated childcare plans for our two children and their after-school schedule. Thankfully my husband works from home but he is in meetings a lot. I work as a music therapist during the day, so I usually drive to a gig straight after finishing a session. Being on the road involves lots of trips to KFC or Marks & Spencers or Costa. If I’m travelling on my own, I like listening to audiobooks or if I’m on the road with Squeezy (John Spiers), its LBC or his itunes library. Then we arrive at the venue and load in. On a good day we can park next to the venue, but a lot of gigs involve a lot of walking to load in. John has about eight different melodeons and a stompbox. Mike, who I often also play with, travels up from Devon with lots of big heavy things. A good day involves a chance to have more coffee.
Then there’s the soundcheck and pre-gig food (most often an array of sandwiches) and finding a dressing room (or disabled loo) to change in. Then the gig and the merch table and the pack-down followed by a long dark drive home or a Travelodge. By far the best bit of the gig is the time spent on stage, and the feeling when we reach the final song. That feeling makes up for all the miles, the drizzle, the petrol stations, and the sandwiches.
Favourite service station?
My favourite service stations are obviously Tebay or Gloucester Services – but sadly we don’t often find ourselves in this part of the country. I love a good M&S at a service station, and browsing (but not buying) the ever increasing range of Percy Pig things. Leigh Delamere has an especially good one. John Spiers likes Salt Beef Brioche Rolls or a great big supermarket where he can buy salami, liquorice or kefir. Mike Cosgrave likes KFC and red wine gums and big multipacks of crisps (crasps).
Thinking about life journeys, and female archetypes, your career has seen you transition from Maiden to Mother. How has that journey been for you as an artist, and how has it been reflected in your music?
Gosh I don’t think I’ve thought about this in terms of female archetypes before – but I’d like to! The difference between performing before having children and performing now, with two school children at home, has been quite immense – but I’d say that I’ve now found a way to make things work smoothly. Performing during my early twenties was always a lot of fun, and there was the freedom to stay out a bit and to socialise after gigs, and not need to return home again really quickly! Although I’ve always combined teaching work with evening gigs.
I love working with my band or in duos, and I’ve had to learn to fully collaborate in every area – such as how we travel to a gig, who drives, how we arrange material etc. I’ve found that being laid back makes for a much more peaceful experience. This has come about I think, through maturity. Travelling and performing when pregnant felt like quite an endurance test! I have done several gigs with horrific morning sickness, and a tour whilst my husband had to wait in the wings with towels every night! I went back to touring very quickly with both of my children, and I did find it extremely tricky to switch off and focus on singing. Having a baby affects your sense of safety, and your wellbeing is deeply linked to knowing that your child is also content and safe. I think being in different venues around the country, far from home, with a small baby, after dark, really affects you.
You’ve also been through so much heartache since becoming a mum. Can we talk about that?
My world was blown apart when my daughter Rosie was born, because we were both very poorly in the days after this, and then my dad died unexpectedly of sepsis on the night that we brought her home from hospital. So I think, looking back, I was a very uneasy version of myself for a long time. Making an album about this experience helped hugely, and each time I sang songs from the album, I felt as if my dad was back in the room with me. I found a meaning to music that hadn’t felt quite as resonant before. Singing became even more crucial to me, and I wanted to share this feeling and this depth of emotion. Sadly we had another tragedy when my second child was born, as my mother developed early onset Alzheimers and needed a lot of interventions. After two moves, she eventually lived in a nursing home and passed away in April of this year. Travelling with a toddler and a baby at this point, felt equally harrowing! This experience is reflected in aspects of the Needle Pin album, and in my solo album, Gracious Wings.
For your fellow musicians and readers with small children, does the juggle get easier?
I feel that as my children have grown, and enjoy coming to festivals and are able to be left with my husband at home during school nights – things have become easier. I now relish the evenings I spend performing, as I get to enjoy playing music with wonderful musicians, and talking to the audience, and to break loose a bit. I always love coming home and I am really enjoying the challenge of a new career alongside folk music!
A Midwinter’s Night from Jackie Oates & John Spiers is out on Sunday 1st December on CD and digital from their duo’s Bandcamp page. You can catch them touring throughout December at the below dates – tickets from their website.
